berlingo wont go

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo wont go

Postby ChrisB » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:49 am

cianof wrote:I think E4 =
Permanent fault: Automatic gearbox selector lever short-circuit to positive..


Ah thats interesting, and thus I wonder if once the electronics start to see the vehicle is moving via the VSS then it shuts it down because it thinks theres an issue with the gearbox selector

It allows the vehicle to be moved but not at any speed.

Just a thought

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!

guymark
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Re: berlingo wont go

Postby guymark » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:34 pm

Hi Harry.

I REALLY hope I am not teaching granny to suck eggs - if so, I apologise, not wanting to rattle cages. Having spent a fair bit of time playing with lead acid over the years though, the voltages had me reaching for a calculator. If I have made an assumption that I shouldn't (not standard Pb/H2s04 etc), then just ignore me and I'll go away quietly :)

Anyway....

175 volts over 14 cells is 12.5v - if that is an off-load voltage once the battery has rested a few hours from being charged, it suggests that the battery is between about 75% and 80% charged at most.

If it is a voltage measurement taken quite recently after a charge, then the battery capacity is currently MUCH lower than this. If the voltage has since fallen further, you could then find out roughly what the final pack voltage was - and get a fairly good idea of amount of oomph left.

100% = 12.83v
90% = 12.70v
80% = 12.55v
70% = 12.45v
60% = 12.30v
50% = 12.18v
40% = 12.07v
30% = 11.93v
20% = 11.82v
10% = 11.65v

About 10.5V under load (20-40A on a normal sized car battery) will indicate a battery almost totally exhausted - I appreciate fully that you are applying more than that when trying to pull off BUT nonethless it is pulling the battery voltage down to below the "empty" range. Unless you are pulling many hundreds of amps, you should not be finding this on even an old tired car battery if it reasonably full.

When a lead acid has just been taken off from being freshly charged, it will often show over 13.8v which will quickly fall to around 13.2v and then GRADUALLY fall away to a gnat's whisker above 12.8 for a completely full battery. Although 12.5v is far from flat (assuming this is a "rested" voltage once the surface charge on the plates has dissipated), it is certainly only about 80% charged at best - if it was at this voltage soon after coming off charge, then it was VERY MUCH lower.

Initial thoughts:-

Check to see if all batteries are same voltage - and nothing quirky going on with a failed battery in the middle (even a tiny bit under voltage might suggest a high resistance cell which will (literally and metaphorically) buckle under extreme load.
How good are your wire links - are they all in good condition and making superb contact?

To give 14 normal lead-acid batteries in series a decent charge, they need to be fed around 196v as a minimum - and ideally an occasional equalisation overcharge to around 210v (15v per battery for half an hour or so).

At the end of the charging cycle, battery off-load ought to show 189v-193v or so (13.5v - 13.8v per battery) which will fall to around 185v (13.2) in the space of a few minutes and then a few hours later ought to have settled down to around 179.2-180v (approx 12.8v - 12.82v per battery).

At this point (once fully charged), I am hoping you will find a much more heartening result, if not, then assuming all batteries are good, I am wondering if there is some iffy connection somewhere which is warming up nicely.

Incidentally, are these new batteries or ex-use ones you are using?

As I said earlier, if I have missed something or come over as some smart-ar** know all, it REALLY isn't my intention but having played around with chargers, batteries, UPS gear and PWM controllers, and generally learning the hard way, I ended up knowing a fair bit about the regular lead-acid battery and how the off-load voltage can be VERY deceiving at times. If I can be of any help at all, please shout me on here or privately.

Kind Regards

Mark

harry morris
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Re: berlingo wont go

Postby harry morris » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:18 pm

Hello MARK, WOW do you know your stuff!!! well let me tell you I have been so sadly disillusioned with this project that I am about to give up!!! I thought in my wisdom that changing the batteries for lead acids would make no difference at all to the vehicle although I was only expecting about 30 miles range from them, at least the vehicle would be useful and we could convert other BERLINGO'S to run on lead acids instead of scrapping them, as lithium is still ridiculous in price and there just isn't enough Nicads for all of us.
Well I made some really good battery links from copper pipe and duly flattened and drilled also used a lot of the vehicles original copper links and connectors as well as all the heavy cables, I was pretty chuffed with the whole installation and the 174 volts at the controller terminals, CHRIS B suggested that there must be a voltage sag when on load so again in my wisdom I added another 24 volts to the pack which gave what I thought was an enormous 194 volts but sadly it did exactly the same thing i e you switch on, get that familiar click, put it in D squeeze the accelerator the motor runs up fine then at 10 mph CLUNK, off goes the controller on comes the the ECO light charging light and stop light and just for good measure the electrical FAULT light puts in an appearance as well.
The evLite shows faults E3 and E4 don't know what they are, it was suggested that the E4 is an automatic gearbox fault!!! I have e.mailed EVAN TUER regarding these but sadly no reply from him to date, I will certainly go over everything again and test all the batteries, the batteries are all the same were 12 months old 12 volt 150 ah and are very very heavy they have eaten well into the vehicles pay load they were all reading 13 volts plus before being put into the battery boxes and are all connected to the fuses and links, I am still convinced it is some sort of sensor or something in the system which has got us ALL beat, cheers HARRY

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timpootle
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Re: berlingo wont go

Postby timpootle » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:11 pm

Don't give up!! From all you have said, your van may have had this fault BEFORE you got it. I still think it's worth chasing the gearstick switch wiring.

Just a quickie 'cos I want to fall asleep.
Tim Crumpton

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ChrisB
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Re: berlingo wont go

Postby ChrisB » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:51 pm

guymark wrote:Hi Harry.

I REALLY hope I am not teaching granny to suck eggs - if so, I apologise, not wanting to rattle cages. Having spent a fair bit of time playing with lead acid over the years though, the voltages had me reaching for a calculator. If I have made an assumption that I shouldn't (not standard Pb/H2s04 etc), then just ignore me and I'll go away quietly :) .....................


Not at all Mark, nice to have another lead acid nutter aboard, have you ever read "Storage Batteries" by G Smith ......... its out of print now but I learnt a lot of my LA knowledge from that book and experience.

ChrisB
I reject reality and substitute my own !!!!!!


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